A list of reasons why I now hate NUMA
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| Author | squibbles |
|---|---|
| Tags | author:squibbles n-art rant rated |
| Created | 2009-09-22 |
| Last Modified | 2010-01-03 |
| Rating |
3 by 24 people.
|
| Map Data | |
| Description | 1. NUMA is not conducive to growth, but rather exists to nurture the ego of the established.
2. NUMA is obtusely intolerant of the abstract idioms of the unusual. 3. NUMA more strongly values the final product, rather then the journey undertaken to achieve a masterpiece. 4. In its quest for purity, NUMA has become corrupted by paranoia, and begun to assume that every talented, yet unrecognizable face is simply the snake, in another guise. 5. NUMA does not know what it wants. It frequently claims that maps should be rated accurately and correctly, and then it heralds this [nmaps.net] as something worthy of more then a 1. I have other gripes, but I'm running out of characters. You guys suck (except for scythe. And those who know I like them because they're chill.) |
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| Squibbles in a Dress (I'M LEAVING NUMA) | The Pig and tHe pIg and thE piG | The Pig and tHe pIg and thE piG | A Triumphant Return! | Batman? No. Fishman. | The legs are the sexiest part of the body. |
Comments
2011-05-05
Reading these comments,
I thought they were extremely hilarious.
On a different note, Atob and Southpaw put it nicely.
On a different note, Atob and Southpaw put it nicely.
2009-11-08
Still think this
had its memories, fond fond memories ;D
and yeah scythe, ive heard of fossil by zorn ;D
and yeah, i hate the search system =P
and yeah scythe, ive heard of fossil by zorn ;D
and yeah, i hate the search system =P
2009-10-17
Atob and ganteka are absolutely right
2009-10-17
A list of reasons why i love NUMA
1) I can browse and play so much maps here, also i can rate and comment them
2) People can play my maps here, also they can rate and comment them
2) People can play my maps here, also they can rate and comment them
2009-10-13
hello
first off, thanks, squib. <3
anywho, though i rarely map, i think i'll voice in...
I don't like NUMA because the user interface blows. The old system was bad, the new system is worse. Search is crippled as hell. I was trying to find Inticed by LittleViking the other day (you've heard of it, I presume?) and I finally gave up and used Google instead -- this isn't how it should be, yo. If I want to search for the title of a map, I should damn well be able to. Hot Maps is broken. Not *broken* broken, but it certainly shouldn't be the only way of looking through maps, since things only tend to last on HM for a few hours at best. If I want a "best of the day", there's no way to get it, and featured maps don't count, since there's only one per day and it's often a map from years ago. There's also no way for anything to be *memorable*, which is totally lame -- will everyone here who's new please raise your hand if you've heard of Fossil by Zorn?
No?
My point exactly.
Anywho, to address atob, it's not entirely unheard of for a person to make a decent map on their first try. Methodic and Zorn come immediately to mind, and as I recall, dude, impulsioN (which was incredibly popular), was your fourth map -- and your first (e-something?) didn't do too bad either.
Anywho - do I think NUMA is bad for new authors? Not really. It's unquestionably easier to get popular if you're involved in the community and hang out on IRC every now and then, of course. It just doesn't do everything I want it do, which happens to be a lot.
anywho, though i rarely map, i think i'll voice in...
I don't like NUMA because the user interface blows. The old system was bad, the new system is worse. Search is crippled as hell. I was trying to find Inticed by LittleViking the other day (you've heard of it, I presume?) and I finally gave up and used Google instead -- this isn't how it should be, yo. If I want to search for the title of a map, I should damn well be able to. Hot Maps is broken. Not *broken* broken, but it certainly shouldn't be the only way of looking through maps, since things only tend to last on HM for a few hours at best. If I want a "best of the day", there's no way to get it, and featured maps don't count, since there's only one per day and it's often a map from years ago. There's also no way for anything to be *memorable*, which is totally lame -- will everyone here who's new please raise your hand if you've heard of Fossil by Zorn?
No?
My point exactly.
Anywho, to address atob, it's not entirely unheard of for a person to make a decent map on their first try. Methodic and Zorn come immediately to mind, and as I recall, dude, impulsioN (which was incredibly popular), was your fourth map -- and your first (e-something?) didn't do too bad either.
Anywho - do I think NUMA is bad for new authors? Not really. It's unquestionably easier to get popular if you're involved in the community and hang out on IRC every now and then, of course. It just doesn't do everything I want it do, which happens to be a lot.
2009-10-12
smc
I see you as brutally honest and a giver of harsh constructive criticism. I think of the fact that if we can please you, then its probably a good map, a good thing because most maps you do not like.
and what is numa without everyone?!? everybody completes it and it would be too peaceful without him ;]
and what is numa without everyone?!? everybody completes it and it would be too peaceful without him ;]
2009-10-10
I love how you took fucking out.
ah i must go get sum crumpitzzzzz cuz i is a brittzzz andz i havz yellow teef.
2009-10-10
Ahaha
"Don't take me for an eegit"
Even though I know it's spelled wrong deliberately, it's still laced with sweet, sweet irony.
Even though I know it's spelled wrong deliberately, it's still laced with sweet, sweet irony.
I hope you realise that. And also that I always rate honestly. Don't take me for some fucking eegit.
2009-10-10
I love these comments.
You all adore my lovely attitude really.
2009-10-09
There are plenty of us
who give constructive criticism, but it's not our responsibility. Learn to word your arguments better please. Disambiguation is ftw!
I don't recall ever seeing you ever give a decent level of feedback. Take a look closer to home before you go out on the streets ranting at strangers.
And if you consider Evil_Sire's general conduct to not warrant the kind of negative reputation he holds, then you really do need a reality check.
I don't recall ever seeing you ever give a decent level of feedback. Take a look closer to home before you go out on the streets ranting at strangers.
And if you consider Evil_Sire's general conduct to not warrant the kind of negative reputation he holds, then you really do need a reality check.
2009-10-09
to answer atob back
I did NOT mean when i said it is the experienced players responsibility to coach the new makers and hold their hand their way through.
What i was talking about is I see a comment like this on a new players map by an experience player:
"This is awful. 1.5/5 down"
Well... maybe not word for word, but this is USELESS when your beginning. How in the world is this "conductive to growth" as you put it. You cannot get better if you do not know how. I'm suggesting and saying that we have to point out the fallacies in a map to new player... like pay closer attention to the tile set or mine placement.
and about ES, yeah theirs a bandwagon, and yeah people put him in a negative light only because others do. If the "better" map makers like the reviews and mods say this type of stuff about him, where is the average person going to side? not with evil sire that's for certain. plus who would like to be assaulted for his ideas constantly and consistently, because I've seen people rate higher because he rated lower (even I did it myself when i didn't care much for him), as well as people attacking his criticism. At least he gives criticism, unlike many others!!! it makes map makers better.
And no, by arguing this, I am not seeking to, wait how did you put it? oh spoon-fed and whine about it. I feel established enough, basically all my recent maps have been rated (some not well, but at least rated). I'm not here to whine about my maps and my establishment into the community and being spoon-fed is annoying, and i don't want it either. I enjoy some criticism about a map so i know what is wrong with my style and can begin to fix it without wrecking it.
What i was talking about is I see a comment like this on a new players map by an experience player:
"This is awful. 1.5/5 down"
Well... maybe not word for word, but this is USELESS when your beginning. How in the world is this "conductive to growth" as you put it. You cannot get better if you do not know how. I'm suggesting and saying that we have to point out the fallacies in a map to new player... like pay closer attention to the tile set or mine placement.
and about ES, yeah theirs a bandwagon, and yeah people put him in a negative light only because others do. If the "better" map makers like the reviews and mods say this type of stuff about him, where is the average person going to side? not with evil sire that's for certain. plus who would like to be assaulted for his ideas constantly and consistently, because I've seen people rate higher because he rated lower (even I did it myself when i didn't care much for him), as well as people attacking his criticism. At least he gives criticism, unlike many others!!! it makes map makers better.
And no, by arguing this, I am not seeking to, wait how did you put it? oh spoon-fed and whine about it. I feel established enough, basically all my recent maps have been rated (some not well, but at least rated). I'm not here to whine about my maps and my establishment into the community and being spoon-fed is annoying, and i don't want it either. I enjoy some criticism about a map so i know what is wrong with my style and can begin to fix it without wrecking it.
2009-10-09
To answer i'm_bad_at_n
it is the experienced map makers responsibility to help the new players map making skills better.
Absolute BULLSHIT! Is it the responsibility of every successful painter to help every art student? Is it the responsibility of every major Hollywood actor to hold the hands of the extras on set?
If you're having difficulty I can tell you the answer is 'No'. The established and popular are not here to hold your hands, they've already given you more than you should ask for by sharing their talent and examples of excellence with you. If you can't glean what you need from that without being spoon-fed AND whine about it, then you're never going to establish yourself in the same way.
The establish few got to where they are by exploiting a natural ability and a decent work ethic. If you don't have access to both of these, you'll never get to the same position.
Reputations are earned, not handed out.
-
I am actually on Evil_sire's side and the only reason that he is treated unfairly by the community is the bandwagon that people put him in as an annoying person that argues everything.
No. E_S does constantly and consistently flame, multi-account, and disrupt the community. There's no bandwagon, there's just people who are tired of a guy being a jerk for his own kicks.
You have a very naive view of the way the world works.
2009-10-09
This
is the biggest load of pretentious guff I've read in a long time.
Few things:
New author comes along with above average to great map claining it as his first, there's a very high chance it's a multi account.
Not conductive to growth? Bullshit. The same resources exist for every new author to achieve the status of the established. Even more so today than when I joined (larger community, more forum events, vent, etc..).
The abstract idioms of the unusual? PALEMOON, Espada777, Gloomp, Sept, Yahoozy, etc..? Also, did you write that line trying to sound like a pretentious arse?
Life is tough. You have to fight for what you want and prove your worth. If you can't get that into your head, you're going to go through life being highly disappointed.
Few things:
New author comes along with above average to great map claining it as his first, there's a very high chance it's a multi account.
Not conductive to growth? Bullshit. The same resources exist for every new author to achieve the status of the established. Even more so today than when I joined (larger community, more forum events, vent, etc..).
The abstract idioms of the unusual? PALEMOON, Espada777, Gloomp, Sept, Yahoozy, etc..? Also, did you write that line trying to sound like a pretentious arse?
Life is tough. You have to fight for what you want and prove your worth. If you can't get that into your head, you're going to go through life being highly disappointed.
2009-10-08
Conen
That's cool bro. It's really what this is here for. :)
Oh, also, I forgot to mention, I totally agree with what you said about the bandwagoning, im_bad_at_n.
Oh, also, I forgot to mention, I totally agree with what you said about the bandwagoning, im_bad_at_n.
2009-10-08
im_bad_at_N
I'm pretty sure it's unbeatable.
Unfortunently I feel the same way you do. and Over time these flaws I've found in the community have chopped me down and left me crippled in a sense. I am slowly losing the urge to map for numa, because although I stride to make something new and innovative, I always realize at the last moment that nobody will see it anyway due to my status in the community, no matter how much I like the final product. I'm just venting a little.
2009-10-07
I know what you mean
when I first came on NUMA almost a year ago (end of December), I felt extremely ignored. The only reason I am still here is the fact that other new map makers (mainly Technochocolate) with myself pushed through to get our maps noticed.
Currently, I do help the new map makers try to get better but often my advice is kinds ignored =(. I know that it is not the best advice one can get but I consider my map making abilities way better than what my user name suggests.
I am actually on Evil_sire's side and the only reason that he is treated unfairly by the community is the bandwagon that people put him in as an annoying person that argues everything. I believe his arguments are actually a defensive maneuver and he does not intentionally start most of the "fights" he is in. My most recent N-art i think explains this better (its a ded to sundaymorningcall) =P
about the rating system, i prefer comments, but there should be something done to make it better. it doesn't make sense sometimes. =P
and ganteka it is the experienced map makers responsibility to help the new players map making skills better. saying that its their responsibility sounds like you and others do not want more competition when it comes to being the top of the hot maps page.
@ squibbles, i'm at school so i cant play this map, but i faved it for later and will rate it later based on how nice i believe the map plays, not the map description =]
Currently, I do help the new map makers try to get better but often my advice is kinds ignored =(. I know that it is not the best advice one can get but I consider my map making abilities way better than what my user name suggests.
I am actually on Evil_sire's side and the only reason that he is treated unfairly by the community is the bandwagon that people put him in as an annoying person that argues everything. I believe his arguments are actually a defensive maneuver and he does not intentionally start most of the "fights" he is in. My most recent N-art i think explains this better (its a ded to sundaymorningcall) =P
about the rating system, i prefer comments, but there should be something done to make it better. it doesn't make sense sometimes. =P
and ganteka it is the experienced map makers responsibility to help the new players map making skills better. saying that its their responsibility sounds like you and others do not want more competition when it comes to being the top of the hot maps page.
@ squibbles, i'm at school so i cant play this map, but i faved it for later and will rate it later based on how nice i believe the map plays, not the map description =]
2009-10-07
Gan, I said before, it's not about my maps.
I'll actually break it down.
1. Is about the loss of constructive criticism on newbies maps. For example, this: http://www.nmaps.net/182379
2. Is about the vilification of those with alternative opinions. As can be seen on pretty much every featured map.
3. I actually had SOTW in mind when I wrote this one; it is merely an extension of the 'Image + text' debate.
4. Is obviously about accusations being made at every new mapper, and clearly has nothing to do with my maps.
5. Surely if I desired recognition, I'd have that map delisted, so as to not affect my histogram, and would not be asking people why they haven't rated it a 1. Besides, almost every map I submit gets ratings nowadays, so as far as I'm concerned, I have reached that point of recognition. If people see my maps on Hot Maps, they play it, as opposed to all the maps that are ignored. What I really despise is the hypocrisy.
1. Is about the loss of constructive criticism on newbies maps. For example, this: http://www.nmaps.net/182379
2. Is about the vilification of those with alternative opinions. As can be seen on pretty much every featured map.
3. I actually had SOTW in mind when I wrote this one; it is merely an extension of the 'Image + text' debate.
4. Is obviously about accusations being made at every new mapper, and clearly has nothing to do with my maps.
5. Surely if I desired recognition, I'd have that map delisted, so as to not affect my histogram, and would not be asking people why they haven't rated it a 1. Besides, almost every map I submit gets ratings nowadays, so as far as I'm concerned, I have reached that point of recognition. If people see my maps on Hot Maps, they play it, as opposed to all the maps that are ignored. What I really despise is the hypocrisy.
2009-10-07
See, squibbles,
What you're trying to do is force people to like your maps. You say that people don't like the new, the different. Okay, so? People can like whatever they want to like. Just as you can map however you want to map. We're not stopping you. What you really want is recognition and compliments for your maps, and you can't get this unless you do what the populace wants. Either suck up to the masses, or don't give a damn what anyone thinks. You can't hang around in the middle.
2009-10-04
Paws
You actually have changed my mind about number 5...I still think that if the author considers a map of his/her own creation worthless then people over evaluate it to find meaning, but on all other fronts, I agree totally with you.
And in regard to number 1, I think that just because we are not required to do so does not mean that we shouldn't. This of course is again, a problem that I have with society and human nature. I guess what I really desire is for people to have more integrity.
And in regard to number 1, I think that just because we are not required to do so does not mean that we shouldn't. This of course is again, a problem that I have with society and human nature. I guess what I really desire is for people to have more integrity.
1. NUMA is first and foremost an archive. There is nothing here that says you have to pay attention to others. Growth as a community is dependent on the newer guys who want to be a part of the community, not on the established members helping people. A push here and there is nice, but the majority of us actually wanted to be a part of the community instead of simply posting maps for fun.
2. NUMA is acutely tolerant of the orthodox idioms of the frequent. Wait, what?
3. All we ever see is the final product. It's hard to judge the amount of work put into a map when you only see the end result. I often spend hours on my maps, but some are no better than 15 minute maps by other authors.
4. Considering the 25+ accounts that Evil_Sire has had, it's become the norm to assume that most every author who makes an amazing first map is not a new guy. For the most part that is correct. There have been plenty of well-known people multi-accounting in the last few months. There's not much we can do about it.
5. This point is the most subjectively-based complaint here. The "corrupt" ratings system is only corrupt because of the users, not the ratings system itself. Plus, considering everyone has different ideas of how to rate maps, complaining that every rating isn't the same as you would rate is annoying. The rating system is supposed to reflect various opinions. It would be boring if every map was rated as you thought it should be. (This last sentence is meant in a broad sense, as if spoken to a large number of people and not specifically you, squibbles.)
That's my response. I probably didn't change your mind at all. Oh well.
2. NUMA is acutely tolerant of the orthodox idioms of the frequent. Wait, what?
3. All we ever see is the final product. It's hard to judge the amount of work put into a map when you only see the end result. I often spend hours on my maps, but some are no better than 15 minute maps by other authors.
4. Considering the 25+ accounts that Evil_Sire has had, it's become the norm to assume that most every author who makes an amazing first map is not a new guy. For the most part that is correct. There have been plenty of well-known people multi-accounting in the last few months. There's not much we can do about it.
5. This point is the most subjectively-based complaint here. The "corrupt" ratings system is only corrupt because of the users, not the ratings system itself. Plus, considering everyone has different ideas of how to rate maps, complaining that every rating isn't the same as you would rate is annoying. The rating system is supposed to reflect various opinions. It would be boring if every map was rated as you thought it should be. (This last sentence is meant in a broad sense, as if spoken to a large number of people and not specifically you, squibbles.)
That's my response. I probably didn't change your mind at all. Oh well.
2009-10-01
Why did you not submit this to moa.
I would have yea'd this on the spot.
2009-09-29
HAI SBUIBLES
<3333333333333
2009-09-29
you know that Christmas pack you're making?
i dunno how thats going or anything, but i cant find any traces of the pms with maps i sent you, so i hope you had them all saved somewhere and you know how many more i need to supply you with.
2009-09-27
And incluye...
...unless you actually explain your points, I'm not going to even consider taking them seriously. I fail to see how I am not "really saying anything". :/
2009-09-27
Also, noob-cakes?
Firstly, that is incredibly juvenile.
Secondly, you assume that I exclusively complain about my maps, where in reality, I am actually complaining far more about other mappers maps. There was a breed of mapper around once which died out not long after I joined, however the maps of the few innovators that are left are consistently ignored or even worse, disregarded as worthless. :/
Secondly, you assume that I exclusively complain about my maps, where in reality, I am actually complaining far more about other mappers maps. There was a breed of mapper around once which died out not long after I joined, however the maps of the few innovators that are left are consistently ignored or even worse, disregarded as worthless. :/
2009-09-27
Gan...
1. To be completely honest, (and I am sorry that I have to say this, but to address the other points and ignore #1 would be equally rude, I think), but I feel that your maps are exactly the same as half the others on NUMA. All the gameplay mechanisms are repeated and reused. Innovation seems to have died from the community, as praise is given most strongly to maps which are familiar. There are of course maps that buck this trend, but they are by no means the majority.
2. No, but if you were to scribble over a piece of paper in such a way that it conveys a deliberately inserted mood/feeling/theme, then for somebody to claim it to be worthless and meaningless is exceedingly closed-minded.
3. I think that a trend being reflected in greater society does not sufficiently justify it. I personally believe that you should be given some marks for "trying", that is, for doing all the work yourself, rather then just punching a few buttons on a calculator, lest we degrade into a society which is unable to sum 3 and 4, without the aid of computers. How many people are taught to use a slide-rule today? The answer is very few: we as a society are already unable to do calculus without computing tools.
4. Extrapolation is never an acceptable tool for the incrimination of an individual, as it assumes that reformation is impossible. All the legal systems in the world (bar the death sentence in countries which practice it) follow this principal, and are based around the fact that a person has a right to change. This principle is not only being ignored, but absolutely perverted. Not only do we assume that a previous member may have not reformed, but we then also assume that every good new member is him. This is, in my opinion, unacceptable.
5. I have never said that I don't care about ratings. In fact, I very much do care about ratings. I am a hardcore perfectionist, and I like things to be accurate, and consistent, so when I make a map that is obviously worthless and it is rated very well, it is clear that the community is rather then actually judging what they see, doing what art communities across the world do, and read much to far into a piece, finding meaning in it that never existed. This is just stupid, and destroys all ideas of an accurate evaluation of worth.
2. No, but if you were to scribble over a piece of paper in such a way that it conveys a deliberately inserted mood/feeling/theme, then for somebody to claim it to be worthless and meaningless is exceedingly closed-minded.
3. I think that a trend being reflected in greater society does not sufficiently justify it. I personally believe that you should be given some marks for "trying", that is, for doing all the work yourself, rather then just punching a few buttons on a calculator, lest we degrade into a society which is unable to sum 3 and 4, without the aid of computers. How many people are taught to use a slide-rule today? The answer is very few: we as a society are already unable to do calculus without computing tools.
4. Extrapolation is never an acceptable tool for the incrimination of an individual, as it assumes that reformation is impossible. All the legal systems in the world (bar the death sentence in countries which practice it) follow this principal, and are based around the fact that a person has a right to change. This principle is not only being ignored, but absolutely perverted. Not only do we assume that a previous member may have not reformed, but we then also assume that every good new member is him. This is, in my opinion, unacceptable.
5. I have never said that I don't care about ratings. In fact, I very much do care about ratings. I am a hardcore perfectionist, and I like things to be accurate, and consistent, so when I make a map that is obviously worthless and it is rated very well, it is clear that the community is rather then actually judging what they see, doing what art communities across the world do, and read much to far into a piece, finding meaning in it that never existed. This is just stupid, and destroys all ideas of an accurate evaluation of worth.
Ferox